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Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate

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WhatIthought189
Jimmy Lee
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1Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Empty Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:00 pm

Jimmy Lee

Jimmy Lee

I think enough time has past, especially with the new album, to revisit this argument. I know Bridges and WIT in particular have come out hard in defense of Adam Rold. Especially with his work during the Sounds demos. But the fact remains is he could not keep a tempo to save his life. His erratic style sometimes produced "interesting" results but he could not cut the mustard live. We all have memories of his erratic performance on Intercity Dirge at the Bannock County Fair that was recorded for posterity on the Galore bonus tracks but that's just the tip of the ice berg. When Stuger Records forced Greg to fire Rold and hire Berry it unlocked a whole new array of ideas for the albums. Can you really say that Sounds of Travel would be as remember without the iconic pulse pounding rhythms of Swedish Disco Jam? Not to mention his introduction of blast beat style rhythms into Galore. The fact remains is that John Berry far outclassed Adam Rold in every technical sense. He may not have had the same "flavor" but it was one that goes down a whole lot smoother and Berry is even capable of producing Rold homages as heard on some of the recent live performances of Intercity.

2Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Empty Re: Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:57 pm

WhatIthought189

WhatIthought189

Jimmy Lee wrote:I is Dingleberry herp derp
Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Tenor

3Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Empty Re: Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:40 pm

Jimmy Lee

Jimmy Lee

Sup, WIT?

I guess was expecting something less... lazy?

4Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Empty Re: Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:01 am

WhatIthought189

WhatIthought189

Jimmy Lee wrote:Sup, WIT?

I guess was expecting something less... lazy?

Eh, what's the point? With every release since Sounds you've made a thread crowning Berry king of the world and every time I humble you with facts and logic. It's just not fun anymore.

5Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Empty Re: Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:52 am

Bridges

Bridges
Admin

Jimmy Lee wrote:Sup, WIT?

I guess was expecting something less... lazy?

Jimmy, friend, please lay off the personal attacks. We do not need a repeat of the last time we made this thread. In regards to the original question, I think we know where I stand on this debate. Even with Berry's admittedly improved performance on TA, he still does not compare with Adam Rold. There's a reason Berry did not play on Nordic Storm, he just could not replicate Rold's original drumming from the demos and as the story goes Greg chose not to have any drums on the finished track at all instead of incorporating Berry's umm "grindie style beats" to put it as nicely as I can in respect to Mr. Berry.

6Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Empty Re: Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:29 pm

Jimmy Lee

Jimmy Lee

I'm really trying not to say anything publicly to you Bridges but since you're ignoring my PMs about WIT's Dingleberry comments I guess I'll make it public. The fact that you always seem to take his side and let him go after literally anyone on this forum with immunity just because you usually share his opinions is infuriating in ways I can't begin to describe. And the funny thing is even when he does go after you, all you do is deduct "Olsen bucks" for all the good that does. Either everyone follows the rules or no one does.

7Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Empty Re: Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:52 pm

BLACK WALL

BLACK WALL

This topic never ends well, I'm staying out of it. I don't want to get suspended again for the crime of saying I enjoy John Berry's work silent

8Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Empty Re: Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:11 pm

Bridges

Bridges
Admin

Though I detest his politics (blah!), Alec Baldwin summed up this argument perfectly.

"An ensemble show will thrive only if you have the right ensemble. I know that sounds obvious, but if you change one element, change any role, you may not have the same success. I’ve read that the Beatles were offered the services of any drummer in London to replace Ringo Starr, who was viewed as the weak link in the band in terms of musicianship. At one point, Starr was called away to honor a previous contract to perform with another group. One of London’s top percussionists showed up at the studio to play with the Beatles, who had to finish recording an album. “The guy was the greatest drummer in London,” the source said. “And [The Beatles] didn’t want him. It had to be Ringo. The band said it had to be those four and no one else.”

This describes Greg\'s Solo at his very best. Rold excelled in every way Ringo did. He didn't believe in excessive solos or showy fills, but believed his part as a drummer was to enhance all of the musicians around him. He did that and did it perfectly. Celtic Tango and Arabic Ensemble show what happens when you have a Drum Solo who knows what his responsibility is. Two great tracks. Sure, I may not think of the drums when I think of those tracks, but Rold's contributions were still as important as everyone else's. Swedish Disco Jam is a classic counter that people of whom I respect (Jimmy), often cite when looking at Berry's contributions. But, did you know that track was originally called "Swedish Tune?" This track originally had Rold's classic beat (Celtic Tango, Western Jingle, etc), and an electric guitar part that Greg was working on. Berry changed the beat so drastically and while people enjoy what he and Pilsby came up with, Greg really only had one riff that still worked with the song. That's not TGOE to me.

Berry and his crowd also derailed the Galore sessions and tour. Yes, yes. Greg was demanding and cut parts of everyone else, but this is a project dreamed, funded, and made possible by Greg, so he gets the last call. If I had a time machine like the band did before making a Pocatello Throwback, I’d throw whatever coupon I could to snare (te-he) Buckii of Buck and Thad while he was available. Unfortunately, the arthritis/CBD cream wasn’t strong enough to get Rold through an entire concert, but Buckii would have carried the mantle nicely. Buck is everything a band could want from a drummer.

I do not think Greg's vision will ever be fully realized with Berry behind the kit. But perhaps that's just me!

Bridges' out.

9Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Empty Re: Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:15 pm

Jimmy Lee

Jimmy Lee

Jeff,

Are we lookin' for what lineup has created the best music or what lineup Greg complained about the least? Because I totally get it - Greg preferred working with Rold. We occasionally cater for Rold and some of the other retirees in his care facility. I love the guy, and he loves talkin' about his time with TGOE and speaks the world of the band (Berry included).

But if we're talking about which lineup has created more powerful music - it's Berry's lineup 100% of the time. Did you ever hear Swedish Tune? From what Greg and John have said there really wasn't music there until Berry and Pilsby took over. If Greg didn't like the track he wouldn't play it like he does. FYI I'm a big drumming fan, from Buddy Rich to Mike Portnoy, and this discussion is frankly an insult to Berry's playing ability. Berry told me when he joined the band that he was a "standard 3/4 drummer" until he read Gary Chester's works on "New Breed" techniques and got introduced to Progressive genres of music (and yes, Metal and Grindie as well).  If you want an example of Berry's techniques, look no further than Polish Sausage. This track originally had "Rold's Gold" but Greg felt like something was missing about the track, and gave Berry permission to "go wild." Berry introduced a Brazilian Caxia to the song and a Tambourin inspired beat in the track. Berry said he was inspired by Greg's love for "Whiplash" and wanted to add something of that effect, and went on to overlay what he calls a "Jazzy-samba inspired section" later in the track. Greg loved the track so much he left it as is on the album.

Berry's creativity hits 110 throughout Bermuda Joyride. His style evolves perfectly with the chaotic dilapidation of the track. We hear Berry go from a standard Rock beat to jazz inspired rhythms to finally, a 200 BPM metal section where Berry showcases his growth as a metal genre. Unlike the last album, Berry's work never drowns out the other musicians, but stands out and adds to each tracks identity. I realize you believe that Greg will never be able to have his vision fully realized while John Berry is in the band, but even Greg disagrees. Greg decided to have your suggested replacement, Buckii of Buck and Thad fame, audition against Berry. Greg still chose Berry, and he wouldn't have done so if he thought Berry would compromise his vision.

We are lucky to have someone as talented and risk-taking as Berry - and now that he's 110% committed to Greg's vision, the sky is the limit.

Feel free to learn more about the Caxia here: http://www.marcdedouvan.com/en/instru.php?instru=caixa

10Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Empty Re: Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:01 am

Tunehead Man

Tunehead Man

Jimmy Lee wrote:Jeff,

Are we lookin' for what lineup has created the best music or what lineup Greg complained about the least? Because I totally get it - Greg preferred working with Rold. We occasionally cater for Rold and some of the other retirees in his care facility. I love the guy, and he loves talkin' about his time with TGOE and speaks the world of the band (Berry included).

But if we're talking about which lineup has created more powerful music - it's Berry's lineup 100% of the time. Did you ever hear Swedish Tune? From what Greg and John have said there really wasn't music there until Berry and Pilsby took over. If Greg didn't like the track he wouldn't play it like he does. FYI I'm a big drumming fan, from Buddy Rich to Mike Portnoy, and this discussion is frankly an insult to Berry's playing ability. Berry told me when he joined the band that he was a "standard 3/4 drummer" until he read Gary Chester's works on "New Breed" techniques and got introduced to Progressive genres of music (and yes, Metal and Grindie as well).  If you want an example of Berry's techniques, look no further than Polish Sausage. This track originally had "Rold's Gold" but Greg felt like something was missing about the track, and gave Berry permission to "go wild." Berry introduced a Brazilian Caxia to the song and a Tambourin inspired beat in the track. Berry said he was inspired by Greg's love for "Whiplash" and wanted to add something of that effect, and went on to overlay what he calls a "Jazzy-samba inspired section" later in the track. Greg loved the track so much he left it as is on the album.

Berry's creativity hits 110 throughout Bermuda Joyride
. His style evolves perfectly with the chaotic dilapidation of the track. We hear Berry go from a standard Rock beat to jazz inspired rhythms to finally, a 200 BPM metal section where Berry showcases his growth as a metal genre. Unlike the last album, Berry's work never drowns out the other musicians, but stands out and adds to each tracks identity. I realize you believe that Greg will never be able to have his vision fully realized while John Berry is in the band, but even Greg disagrees. Greg decided to have your suggested replacement, Buckii of Buck and Thad fame, audition against Berry. Greg still chose Berry, and he wouldn't have done so if he thought Berry would compromise his vision.

We are lucky to have someone as talented and risk-taking as Berry - and now that he's 110% committed to Greg's vision, the sky is the limit.

Feel free to learn more about the Caxia here: http://www.marcdedouvan.com/en/instru.php?instru=caixa

I AM THE ORIGNA TUNEHEAD!

I could not agree

more! its clear that barmuda is his shining opus

11Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Empty Re: Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:46 pm

WhatIthought189

WhatIthought189

Jimmy needs to stop smoking bowls with John Berry and listening to him exaggerate his drumming ability.

12Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Empty Re: Berry vs. Rold: The Ultimate Debate Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:04 pm

Krunk Fact

Krunk Fact

I dont kno how no one has brought this up but y’all have heard Travelin’ Again the song, right? I think Adam Rold played the worst drum solo ive ever heard. I dunno how people still want him over Berry.

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